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	<title>Comments on: The Obesity Paradox</title>
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	<link>http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/the-obesity-paradox.html</link>
	<description>Look Upon My Works Ye Mighty and Despair</description>
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		<title>By: Carps</title>
		<link>http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/the-obesity-paradox.html/comment-page-1#comment-6149</link>
		<dc:creator>Carps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/?p=2228#comment-6149</guid>
		<description>I quite agree with your points, Steve - in fact, you&#039;re making much the same point as me, albeit from the other direction. The point about the science is that it is uncertain and nuanced, whereas the public health message that is constantly delivered across all kinds of media is that &quot;obesity kills&quot; and &quot;obesity is bad&quot;. No grey areas are allowed - and in fact, myths are being promulgated.

Among the most egregious of such myths being Jamie Oliver&#039;s claims that &quot;the young generation is the first that will die younger than their parents&quot; and that some people are &quot;vomiting their own shit&quot; due to their obesity. That is pure, unalloyed horeshit that a media with no real scientific understanding allows to be promulgated to a populace who will believe it, simply because there is no correcting, sober discourse on the subject.

And not only is there a single message being delivered, but there are coercive policies on the table that would tax people&#039;s eating habits, ban particular foods and many other interferences that are simply not justifiable on scientific grounds.

Taken in the round, the hypothesis that &quot;obesity is bad&quot; is on very shakey ground. There is no correlation between high BMI as a predictor of most diseases commonly attributed to it as study after study after study has found.

So back to the point: where is the corresponding nuance in the public health message? There is none. The science has been highjacked by vested interests in government, the media and industry who wish to exert their influence over our lives for a variety of motivations.

That is not a grown up, rational or scientific approach to either public health or policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I quite agree with your points, Steve &#8211; in fact, you&#8217;re making much the same point as me, albeit from the other direction. The point about the science is that it is uncertain and nuanced, whereas the public health message that is constantly delivered across all kinds of media is that &#8220;obesity kills&#8221; and &#8220;obesity is bad&#8221;. No grey areas are allowed &#8211; and in fact, myths are being promulgated.</p>
<p>Among the most egregious of such myths being Jamie Oliver&#8217;s claims that &#8220;the young generation is the first that will die younger than their parents&#8221; and that some people are &#8220;vomiting their own shit&#8221; due to their obesity. That is pure, unalloyed horeshit that a media with no real scientific understanding allows to be promulgated to a populace who will believe it, simply because there is no correcting, sober discourse on the subject.</p>
<p>And not only is there a single message being delivered, but there are coercive policies on the table that would tax people&#8217;s eating habits, ban particular foods and many other interferences that are simply not justifiable on scientific grounds.</p>
<p>Taken in the round, the hypothesis that &#8220;obesity is bad&#8221; is on very shakey ground. There is no correlation between high BMI as a predictor of most diseases commonly attributed to it as study after study after study has found.</p>
<p>So back to the point: where is the corresponding nuance in the public health message? There is none. The science has been highjacked by vested interests in government, the media and industry who wish to exert their influence over our lives for a variety of motivations.</p>
<p>That is not a grown up, rational or scientific approach to either public health or policy.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/the-obesity-paradox.html/comment-page-1#comment-6147</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/?p=2228#comment-6147</guid>
		<description>&#039;Here’s how science works ... “No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.”&#039;

Except that science doesn&#039;t proceed like that, not really. Of course a single negative result can disprove a hypothesis deductively, but if you mean to use this as a model for actual scientific practice, you are barking up the wrong tree. In the world of real science, induction (ie empirical confirmation of a hypothesis) is used all the time. And that&#039;s just fine.

Right, generalities out the way, let’s look at your hypothesis: &#039;obesity is a risk factor in health&#039;. Is this one that could be deductively refuted by a single experiment? No, because it is not of the form &#039;all x are y&#039;. (Indeed, most scientific hypotheses are not of this form.) The deductive refutation method doesn’t work at all in your example: real studies will look for correlations between (eg) BMI and heart disease. Some studies will find one, but some may not and we have to decide how to take things forward. But this is in no way equivalent to (eg) finding 100 white swans and 1 black swan and taking the hypothesis ‘all swans are white’ as refuted.

Also, your hypothesis itself (&#039;obesity is a risk factor in health&#039;) is so imprecise that even if we took the very various studies you reference as conclusive in the specific areas of health each one looks at, it would still be possible that obesity is a risk factor in another aspect of health.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Here’s how science works &#8230; “No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.”&#8217;</p>
<p>Except that science doesn&#8217;t proceed like that, not really. Of course a single negative result can disprove a hypothesis deductively, but if you mean to use this as a model for actual scientific practice, you are barking up the wrong tree. In the world of real science, induction (ie empirical confirmation of a hypothesis) is used all the time. And that&#8217;s just fine.</p>
<p>Right, generalities out the way, let’s look at your hypothesis: &#8216;obesity is a risk factor in health&#8217;. Is this one that could be deductively refuted by a single experiment? No, because it is not of the form &#8216;all x are y&#8217;. (Indeed, most scientific hypotheses are not of this form.) The deductive refutation method doesn’t work at all in your example: real studies will look for correlations between (eg) BMI and heart disease. Some studies will find one, but some may not and we have to decide how to take things forward. But this is in no way equivalent to (eg) finding 100 white swans and 1 black swan and taking the hypothesis ‘all swans are white’ as refuted.</p>
<p>Also, your hypothesis itself (&#8216;obesity is a risk factor in health&#8217;) is so imprecise that even if we took the very various studies you reference as conclusive in the specific areas of health each one looks at, it would still be possible that obesity is a risk factor in another aspect of health.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Worstall</title>
		<link>http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/the-obesity-paradox.html/comment-page-1#comment-6143</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Worstall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/?p=2228#comment-6143</guid>
		<description>Eeek!

&quot;Cuba and the era of the bicycle&quot;

So, umm, that&#039;s what they&#039;re going to be suggesting as the solution, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eeek!</p>
<p>&#8220;Cuba and the era of the bicycle&#8221;</p>
<p>So, umm, that&#8217;s what they&#8217;re going to be suggesting as the solution, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Jon of the 'ford</title>
		<link>http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/the-obesity-paradox.html/comment-page-1#comment-6142</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon of the 'ford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/?p=2228#comment-6142</guid>
		<description>...all this just because you want a guilt free pasty!?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;all this just because you want a guilt free pasty!?</p>
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		<title>By: Carps</title>
		<link>http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/the-obesity-paradox.html/comment-page-1#comment-6136</link>
		<dc:creator>Carps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/?p=2228#comment-6136</guid>
		<description>@Richard - Oh gawd... I just read the preview/synopsis of that book and had to chain myself to a radiator to stop myself from boiling myself alive so that I wouldn&#039;t ever risk seeing that book in the flesh on a shelf in a bookshop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Richard &#8211; Oh gawd&#8230; I just read the preview/synopsis of that book and had to chain myself to a radiator to stop myself from boiling myself alive so that I wouldn&#8217;t ever risk seeing that book in the flesh on a shelf in a bookshop.</p>
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		<title>By: David Whitehouse</title>
		<link>http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/the-obesity-paradox.html/comment-page-1#comment-6134</link>
		<dc:creator>David Whitehouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/?p=2228#comment-6134</guid>
		<description>Totally agree with you Carps.

Although, I&#039;ve read that BMI is flawed, so I wonder if they could use a better metric...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally agree with you Carps.</p>
<p>Although, I&#8217;ve read that BMI is flawed, so I wonder if they could use a better metric&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/the-obesity-paradox.html/comment-page-1#comment-6133</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/?p=2228#comment-6133</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re really going to hate a book being published in October called The Energy Glut.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re really going to hate a book being published in October called The Energy Glut.</p>
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		<title>By: Kean</title>
		<link>http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/the-obesity-paradox.html/comment-page-1#comment-6132</link>
		<dc:creator>Kean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/?p=2228#comment-6132</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not necessarily against fat people, but godammit they have to be jolly, otherwise whats the point. :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not necessarily against fat people, but godammit they have to be jolly, otherwise whats the point. <img src='http://www.itsafamilything.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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